Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Isaacs,

I condemned the actions of the UK and America in pursuing an illegal war with Iraq.

Also at the time I thought the "dodgy dossier" claims were laughable and bogus.

The Tory cons. were in favour of the "war" and they were stupid then, as many remain so.

I also condemned many Policies and Action of the previous government, but you are to bigoted to understand my criticisms when I did so.

What irritates me about both cons. and Labours parties, is that they allow themselves to be bought, and have funds donated to the Labour and Conservative coffers through the Friends of Israel groups. I think that this is a disgrace to British politics and as corrupting as the "expenses" scams.


I am not a member of any party, but am interested in have been interested in politics for over 55 years and believe in developing harmony in society, rather than conflicts. I think this present government has the potential to be the most divisive for forty years or so.

I think David Cameron's talk of the greater society and social responsibility is humbug.

It appals me, that at this moment, this country's present government is run by two ex-PR agents.


I think the present government is showing itself to be a walking hypocrisy and at the moment, I think its released economic policies will increase the fragmentation in this country's society, with all its consequences.

Its International Policies appear vacuous to me, but time will tell.

========

As I have written before, I cannot see it feasible to dismantle the State of Israel, but I think it to be a natural right of all the inhabitants of that area to have "equal rights" in all aspects of that society. It will eventually occur. I hope that there isn't another holocaust before it happens.

Otherwise I agree with much of Hay's postings and views.

=====================

I have difficulty with the term Jews.

The term confuses me, and I would prefer to use the term Israeli and consider Jews not to be a racial or nationalistic group, but as belonging to groups who believe in, or adherents, to various Jewish Religions.

===============

Perhaps, if race and religion was left outside the negotiating rooms for a while, an ongoing solution may be found.

The relationship between Jews and Israel is an important one as the vast majority of the inhabitants are not genetically Jewish. Certainly the German and Eastern European Jewish people are descendants of the Khazar Kingdom who converted to Juaism about 1,000 years ago. They spoke a language which they called Yiddish and they adopted the Hebrew alphabet, but were not ethnic Jews. They called themselves Yiddish. There is no Yiddish in Ancient Hebrew and no Ancient Hebrew in Yiddish.

Israel is only interested in expansion. That is why they expel Paliestinians from their farms and land and build illegal settlements on occupied territory.

Haystack: "Genetically Jewish"?????? That's got to be the most revealing and unenlightened post I've ever seen you make.

Judaism is not a species or a race. It's a religion. There is no such thing as 'Genetically Jewish'. Jews don't really have special genes that promote nasal cartilage growth. There's no special place on their double helix that causes large bank accounts. Their DNA is not predisposed to horns on their foreheads. That stuff is racist uneducated nonsense from two centuries ago. And it was only bigoted idiots that believed it then. I thought you knew this? Yet you use the term 'Genetically Jewish'. What a f*ckwit you can be sometimes!

What are you on?

Funny that, but many Jewish people and large numbers of Jewish leaders do not regard someone as Jewish if their mother was not Jewish. That is certainly the case with the more orthodox members. There was even a court case a few months ago where a Jewish child was refused admission to JFS (the Jewish Free School in London) because his mother wasn't Jewish. That effectively means that at some point these people would have had to have a non Jewish mother.

It is not discredited nonsense. It is written about and accepted even by Jewish historians. I could give you a few few names. I am not sure where the bank account bit came from as it was you who mentioned it.

One of the arguments about Jewish immigration to Israel and their rights to the land is that is is a historic homeland and there are unbroken links back to that land. This is not the case. If you are maintaining that they have the right to settle there purely because of religion and not due to ethnicity then that is even more tenuous than the false ethnic argument.

edit

Ruling by Britains's Supreme Court in December last year.

In a five-to-four decision the top judges ruled that the school (Britains oldest and largest Jewish school), illegally refused places to pupils it did not consider ethnically Jewish, by applying the strictest interpretations of Halacha (Jewish Law) which considers only the child of an Orthodox Jewish women to be Jewish.

Did you note the use of the phrase 'ethnically Jewish'?

Haystack - I think you're confusing ethnicity with genetics.

Well in this case it amounts to the same thing. If you cannot be Jewish if your mother was not Jewish then that is a genetic link. It is very interesting to see various Rabbis pronouncements on the subject. It seems quite commonly held that Judaism is both a race and a religion. How can my comments about genetic Jewishness be racist if even Jewish Rabbis are saying the same thing. It is also not racist as I have not attached any detremental comments to being Jewish by race or religion.

ethnicity and genetics amount to the same thing? Clearly you have confused them.

It seems quite commonly held that Judaism is both a race and a religion. - only amongst racists.

On post 2719: you cannot be jewish if your mother was not jewish

On post 2715: German and Eastern European jews chose to become jewish en-masse (ie their mothers were not jewish).

Which is it to be haystack? Your two pompous declarations are mutually exclusive. You can keep one if you want to, but you also have to declare the other as bollocks.

The German and Eastern European Jews are desceendants of the asians Khazars who converted to Judaism by edict from their ruler at the time. If it is accepted that you cannot be Jewish if your mother isn't Jewish then these peopel are not genetic Jews (ie descending from the original inhabitants of Israel who were expelled in the first century BC).

Rabbi Ari Enkin

I wish others would ask and explore the question you raise!

While the full answer is exhaustive - the short answer is: The Jews are both a race and religion.

Our religion is quite clear -- see your nearest Biible.
...

And, Lord Justice Sedley added, "it appears clear to us that Jews constitute a racial group defined principally by ethnic origin and additionally by conversion". .

"To discriminate against a person on the grounds that he or someone else either is or is not Jewish is therefore to discriminate against him on racial grounds."

So if you are saying that the inhabitants of Israel have no genetic link back to ancient Israel and are not a race anyway, why do they have any right to occupy any of the land that belongs to the Palistinians and call it Israel? A religion has no right take other peole's land.

No haystack, I'm not saying that. You are.

Of course a religion has no right to take a land.

The bit I'm struggling with is your questioning of Israel's right to exist and your refusal to accept that a legally constituted and democratic country (regardless of how it came to be) has every right to exist in peace and without constant bombardment from its neighbours. And that when subject to such constant bombardment that country has every right to defend itself by war, occupation, economic means, sanctions, political negotiation and any other legal means at its disposal.

Although the problem is complex to solve, it seems simple enough to describe. It's not a question of ethnicity, occupation, religion or race. Nor any of the other things you throw in to muddy the waters. It's certainly not a question of genetics. And as for your latest rant about khazers - that's just utterly irrational. Akin to saying there should not be any islamic democracies because Mohammed was only born about 1400 years ago, or Christian democracies because Christianity is only 2000 years old. Again - nonsense. It misses the whole point of democracy.

Isaacs , are you posting from Israel ?

Has he been conscripted?

Has he been conscripted?

what, twice?

With luck.

i was going to post something about being born jewish and that you cannot "become" jewish, but i think it would be too much like hard work having to sweep up the ensuing debris

Aldwickk - no just trying to balance the one sided cut and pastes on here.

Cynic - of course you can become Jewish if you take being a follower of Judaism as sufficient to be Jewish. You can convert to Judaism just as you can convert to most, if not all, other religions and it happens all the time. OK so you may not be able to trace your bloodline back to Abraham and Isaac but it doesn't mean you are not Jewish.

Sammy Davis Jr? Biblical Ruth? Everyone from Khazar? I probably know a dozen or so less celebrated.

My wife is named after Ruth the Moabite. However, in her case, she has had to convert to being Scottish. :-)