Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Well put Fred but it dosent detract from the plain fact which is Hamas continually target the bordering villages of Israel with the intention of causing casualties. If they had the means the casualties of Israel would be much, much greater. The intention and desire to detroy is evident. You talk of disproportion say 100/1 but if that one was yours would you then, i think not?. One life is as important 100 is'nt it?.

The term "disproportionate" is a nonsense term that has appeared as of late.....first ...there is no need to shout on line Fred....I think we can all read...secondly.... I suppose you could say that the Allied bombing of Germany might be "disproportionate" or whatever and then you could go on right through every war......it's total nonsense....if you are being fired at, you fire back and defeat your adversary....Hamas had this coming, they need to stop firing rockets and bring an end to this terrible conflict !.
Fred1new - 14 Jan 2009 15:59 - 273 of 273

RF.

The term disproportionate may be nonsense to you, but it is the description used by the International Aid, Humanitarian Agencies and leading world politicians, to describe the present Israeli governments actions.

You have a perfect right to disagree.

Your second point.

It is recognised by many that during WW2., Burma, Vietnam etc. that War Crimes were performed by all sides.

Although, I can understand the reasons for the obliteration of Dresden, I think it was a war crime and a crime against humanity.

Although, I can understand the reasons for Hiroshima nuclear bomb (by the civilised world) , I think it was a war crime and a crime against humanity.

I won't list any more.

It was lucky that the RIGHT SIDE won. We must have had God on OUR Side.

I only hope that none of our families are in the same helpless position of some of those groups of people who were there through no fault of their own.

In an attempt to get your point across perhaps you could try underline and italics as well Fred? Bold alone doesn't seem to be working.

PS
I have edited this.

PS. If my grandson fires at me with his peashooter, what should I do?

Take it off him.

Break one of his arms or legs.

Knock him down and break his bed and tell him to sleep on the floor in future.

I hope not.

Hopefully, I would sit down with him and tell him that he might have hurt me.

Then I hope, I would ask him if he intended to hurt me, and if so why.

I would also listen to the reasons given and see if we can negotiate a better method of dealing with one another so we could both be happy again.


I would possibly warn him that, if he beats me at chess one more time, I may not be as tolerant.

Wasn't shouting Fred. Said before i'm an uneducated fellow, always thorght someones name began with a capital letter. You live and learn. Any way like you've already stated this thread was started to debate the current conflict in the middle east not WW2.

They tried all of that Fred (talking , reasoning , etc) ... it didn't work.

Haystack, Agree with much of your posting. But burglars carry guns and get their shots in first.
Not sure how many innocent knife carrying victims of knife crime there are in this country for the last two years.

Dil, If its not working, try something different.

Fred imagine instead of your grandson firing peas it is your neighbour firing his shotgun into your garden and almost hitting you and your grandson. You go around to "tell him that he might have hurt you and ask him if that is what he intended and if that is really what he wanted". He head butts you, tells you to f'ck off and says he will only stop shooting once you leave because he doesn't like living next you and wants your garden for himself. You go back home and after a while the shooting starts again except he is now having a go at your front driveway as well. You now can't go out without fear of getting shot and you dare not have your grandson around to play. How many times do you keep going back for that polite conversation before doing something a little more "proportionate"?

Isaacs, Tried what you suggested, doesn't look as good!

That's what they are doing Fred.

Dil,
Do you mean Murdering more than 300 children in GAZA. collapsing the infrastructure and turning their backs on the United Nations? Ignoring World opinion?

How long will they continue to do so and what future is Israel stoking up for itself?

Yeah Fred, right. If they hadn't gone in they'd have no trouble with Hamas ever again?

Turn it round Fred and ask the instigators of this conflict Hamas what they thought they were up to firing rockets on a civilian population and what they expected to get out of it ?

Dil,

"Turn it round Fred and ask the instigators of this conflict Hamas what they thought they were up to firing rockets on a civilian population and what they expected to get out of it ?"

What do the instigators of the conflict Israel, think they would get out of confiscating land and Murdering their children?

Shortened version!

Fred
One has to assume that your grandson is not an adult. If he is and he fires a pea-shooter at you then some attention from the medical authorities may be in order.

As he is a child then proportiionate response is called for. behaviour by adults do not always need proportiate response, expecally, as in the case of Hamas, they know the consequences. It can hardly be a surprise to Hamas that Israel have invaded Gaza. Hamas might be surprised at the level of response, but not by much. In fact my guess is that they got more or less the response they wanted. An indication of this is the continued firing of rockets. Israel have been lured into a political trap by Hamas.

Yeah , very funny Fred.

Fred
I have very little belief in the casualty figures given by the Gaza authorities. Certainly the adlt figures inclde large numbers of Hamas. There are good propaganda reasons to make the childrens' figures bigger.

Haystack. Disagree, my grandson is not a child when he assaults his sister or me! 8-)

However, I think the metaphor is apt, when you consider size of population and forces etc. It also applies to the mind set of the participants.


I agree with your last sentence. I thought it was an obvious trap. I hope that something useful will come out of it.

But the stupidity is obvious by the carnage which is left behind on both sides.

Haystack, Halve the numbers. Does that make it any better?