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Israeli Gaza conflict?????? (GAZA)     

Fred1new - 06 Jan 2009 19:21

Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

cynic - 07 Feb 2011 17:09 - 4248 of 6906

general strike about what? ..... and even if there were, why would the army intervene? ...... as far as i can determine, even the unrest is fairly localised, albeit it is in the key city of cairo, plus a few others about which nothing is reported.

my guess is that mubarak will disappear off the scene within say the next 4/8 weeks, and some sort of interim gov't will be put in place, no doubt under the "protection" of the army

cynic - 07 Feb 2011 17:10 - 4249 of 6906

ITLOB - tell me more, for i also thought the palestinians/arabs were disenfranchised in israel

Haystack - 07 Feb 2011 17:25 - 4250 of 6906

ITLOTB
I think you will find that
"...with equality of rights in all of the populace of those countries. That includes Israel."

applies to the lack of rights of Arabs living in Israel and not the voting. Many Arab parties are banned in Israel. It is almost impossible for an Arab to buy land in Israel. Many Arab MPs in the Israeli parliament are banned from parliament for supporting the Palestinians. The UN human rights constantly criticises Israel for human rights abuse aginst Arab citizens.

This from the Jerusalem Post

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=170735

Fifty percent of Jewish Israeli high-schoolers believe that Arab Israelis should not be granted the same rights as their Jewish counterparts, according to a new Maagar Mohot poll of 536 15-to-18-year-olds.

Furthermore, Arabs should be prevented from running for Knesset, 56 percent of the Jewish children said.

Fifty percent of the Jewish youngsters who defined themselves as religious said the Death to Arabs slogan was legitimate.

In The Land of the B - 07 Feb 2011 17:26 - 4251 of 6906

Arabs who are Israeli citizens vote for parliamentary and municipal elections. Most define themselves as Israeli citizens of Palestinian nationality. If I remember correctly there are at least three Arab parties represented in the Knesset. About 30% of Israel's population is Arab or Druze, and mainly Muslim.
Many serve in the Israeli Defence Forces and they are represented throughout civic life.
One of the Supreme Court judges is a Palestinian Arab.

Haystack - 07 Feb 2011 17:31 - 4252 of 6906

cynic
There are large demonstrations in all the Egyptian cities every day. There have been tens of thousand in Alexandria today. A genberal strike would nean the closing down of everything. It is interesting that yesterday the banks opened for a few hours and a lot of people were saying that they had withdrawn enugh money to buy food for 2 weeks. If all of business Egyptian life stops the army might get involved and tell the Pharaoh to leave. It is the army that has the real power and it has been that way since the early 1950s.

cynic - 07 Feb 2011 17:32 - 4253 of 6906

both curious and interesting ...... so from where does the bit about palestinians (arabs) being precluded from selling out to jews (israelis) emanate? ...... are palestinians (arabs) truly allowed to become israeli citizens with equal rights and all that that entails?

Haystack - 07 Feb 2011 17:32 - 4254 of 6906

ITLOTB
Arab or Druze can serve in the army, but not Palestinian Arabs.

cynic - 07 Feb 2011 17:35 - 4255 of 6906

if the army has held the power since the early 50s, they have been remarkable quiescent and have actually remained pretty neutral in recent weeks

==========

what is the difference between an "arab" and a "palestinian arab" and how can you tell? ..... a yellow star perhaps?

Haystack - 07 Feb 2011 17:37 - 4256 of 6906

cynic
The bit about Palestinians selling to Israelis is really to do with property oned by them in the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem. Is a law passed by the Palestinians in 'their' territory, but rarely enforced. I say 'their', because of course it is occupied by the IOF.

Some Arabs do own land in Israel. It is mainly land that was owned a long time ago. It is almost impossibe now.

In The Land of the B - 07 Feb 2011 17:37 - 4257 of 6906

Amazing.
No it isn't.
Some people won't let facts get in the way of their prejudices and hatreds.

Haystack - 07 Feb 2011 17:38 - 4258 of 6906

Not all Arabs in the region call themselves Palestinian Arabs. If they live in Israel and call themselves that then they expect trouble.

cynic - 07 Feb 2011 17:41 - 4259 of 6906

interesting especially re jerusalem .... imo theroux is an honest observer, and the implication in his programme the other day was that the properties that had been bought might well have been effectively "compulsory purchases" or along those lines

=========

so a "palestinian arab" is only such because he chooses to call himself that and not because he has some distinguishing characteristic .... of course by doing so, he would indeed invite "trouble" just as would someone who openly chose to describe himself as a member of BNP in Golders Green

Haystack - 07 Feb 2011 19:27 - 4260 of 6906

The compulsory purchase is based on the Israeli 'absentee property law'. If a Palestinian own a property and is not living there then the state can take it. This is frequently when the owner has been expelled from the West Bank and is living in Gaza or is a Palestinian refugee.

In 1950 Israel used the Absentee Property Law to expropriate property belonging to the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who fled their homes during the 1948-49 war. The Israeli law violates Article 46 of the Hague Convention, which prohibits confiscation of private property in occupied territory."

"In Israel, Arab villages were bulldozed over, citrus groves, lands, and property seized, and their owners and inhabitants prohibited from returning. Indeed, not only was the property of "absentee" Palestinians expropriated, but any Palestinians who moved from one place within Israel to another during the war were declared "present absentees" and their property expropriated as well.

"Of the 860,000 Arabs who had lived in areas of Palestine that became Israel, only 133,000 remained. Some 470,000 moved into refugee camps on the West Bank (controlled by Jordan) or the Gaza Strip (administered by Egypt). The rest dispersed to Lebanon, Syria, and other countries"

Haystack - 07 Feb 2011 19:28 - 4261 of 6906

cynic
Why should an Arab not describe himself as a Palestinian Arab, especially if he lived in what was Palestine and is now temporarily classed as Israel?

cynic - 07 Feb 2011 20:41 - 4262 of 6906

for just a few posts this became an intelligent and questioning thread ..... back to Square One i'm afraid

In The Land of the B - 07 Feb 2011 22:54 - 4263 of 6906

The Arab population of Israel inside the 1967 borders is 1.4 million out of a total of 7.5 million.
They have prospered and multiplied. They have not emigrated to the Arab world in search of freedom or fled from Israeli "persecution".
Very large numbers of Jews fled or were expelled from Arab countries creating an exchange of populations, as so often tragically happens in divided lands, e.g India and Pakistan.
How strange not to hear the parrot et al suggesting that Jews expelled from Arab countries should get "their" properties and land "back".
But not so surprising when Nazis like him present one sided propaganda and "information". Or when they say as parrot did, "why should I be objective?"

In The Land of the B - 07 Feb 2011 23:02 - 4264 of 6906

Like I've always said, cynic, you can't debate or discuss rationally with the anti-semites of the world like the parrot squawking on the shoulder of freddie few brains.
It is rare for right to be entirely on one side and wrong on the other, and the Israel/Palestine problem is no different. There are good and bad amongst all people.
Those who try to delegitimise and demonise whole peoples or countries and want to wipe them off the map - like the hay parrot, freddie, Ahmedinejad and the rest - are nazis plain and simple. That's what racial and religious and nationalistic hatreds are. No amount of denial or protestations alters that reality.

Haystack - 08 Feb 2011 04:42 - 4265 of 6906

ITLOTB
Why do you equate dislike of Israel's behaviour with being a Nazi or an anti-semite? They are not related. I am surprised that your grasp of logic is so poor. I dislike the behaviour of Iran but it is does not make me be a hater of Islam.

"The Arab population of Israel inside the 1967 borders is 1.4 million out of a total of 7.5 million."

Don't forget that when the state of Israel was declared the Arabs were in the majority by a long way. Why can a Jew emmigrate to Israel but not an Arab?

rawdm999 - 08 Feb 2011 08:30 - 4266 of 6906

Egypt to raise public sector salaries by 15%. I think Ed Balls is moonlighting for Mubarak with this bribe (or is that where Gordon Brown ended up? Geography not his strong point. Libya is next door!)

Fred1new - 08 Feb 2011 10:09 - 4267 of 6906

Or, perhaps, it market forces at work.

Mubarak is corrupt and thinks further corruption will keep him in power.


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