this important referendum is nearly upon us and i thought it would be interesting explore the views held by this BB

after much thought, i have decided to vote against AV
i do not dispute that "first past post the post" is in some ways unfair - so is life and golf! - but i am far from convinced that AV is intrinsically much better

i would rather have a stronger gov't of some hue than a weak coalition or mps (and parties) who have felt obliged to trim their sails to offend the least number and thus gain a few more secondary votes

full-blown PR is at least "fair", but even then, there are many examples of horribly weak and unstable gov'ts, which is also pretty disastrous

finally, and of greatest concern, i suspect the turnout for this referendum will be +/-35% at best and probably a lot lower in many parts of the country
it follows that those who vote in this will be (relative) "activists" for lack of a better word, for the run-of-the-mill voter will find the whole thing too complicated and voting on it all, too much of a fag
thus, if there is a change in our voting system, then it is very likely to have been pushed through by <20% of the electorate - is that fair?

peter + herman - enough!

herman - i haven't even scanned through all the recent garabage just posted here, but i can certainly assure you that peter does indeed know his stuff and researches very thoroughly .... as for TA, i think his posts were often self-delusional and his conclusions often just plain daft as the REAL evidence on EOG clearly showed

however, THIS THREAD IS MEANT TO BE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE AV REFERENDUM!

Last line endorsed cynic SD

I will be glad when the " French Connection " returns and we can get the benefit of his expert knowledge.

What the people want is a referendum on Europe

In N Ireland they already use a form or PR for both council and assembly elections which was meant to produce powersharing gov. This it does but effectively removes any real opposition. AV isn't PR and I'm not sure it is suitable for Westminster. What is more worrying is the % of people who don't vote so leaving the "lunatic" fringes, who will vote, with a higher % of say, than should be proportionally theirs.

which has been exactly my point maggie - see post 21 to save you wading back through the recent torrent of garbage

for the first time in my voting years we do not have a lib putting up for election .

Voted last week.

In the last 30 odd years in the UK under the present system and 2 major parties in power we have seen the benefits from North Sea Oil (remember that) and some of our other natural resources used to largely fund the millions of unemployed (what a waste financially and socially), instead of investing the benefits more competently for "our" future.

We have also seen the % of people taking part in the voting system decline alarmingly which can't be good for democracy.

All of the No campaign that I have seen and heard has been shallow, negative and denigrating with most of the major 2 parties MP's on the No side as well (back to the 1st paragraph).

Usually of the opinion that "If it ain't broke don't fix it", but given the above why on earth would anyone want to keep the present system?

So did I vote Yes.. you bet I did.

post 21 gives part of my own reasons, but i do not denigrate others for their own views

stan . so we now know that you are lib the very people that have destoyed this country with therehumans rights .libs are in a dream and liars look at cable and clegg
if they had there way we would more over run . i would never vote lib a bunch of holligans

Incorrect on all assumptions Tanker.

If 99% of the world nations have rejected it but Vince (Loose) Cable is for it I am 100%

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When does a belief become a reason which is oblivious to thought?

myself i am as far right as possible

"myself i am as far right as possible".. bit like most of the other posters on MAM then -):

That's right most of the posters on MAM have voted you and Fred as a couple of tossers, so do the decent thing and piss off

you people who vote yes . are the same people who if attacked would put up the white flag before thinking .

Tank,

Not quite right enough, just move along the bench a little more please.

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Aids, the oracle, writes again with amazing insight and wit.

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PS. How did you escape TA little list?

excuse me guys, but may we keep this thread sensible .... undoubtedly this is a singularly important issue, but to my mind it should not be bound by "party political lines" as seems to be happening here as well as in the big outside world

a Q for the "yes" camp .... do you think it democratically fair if 20% of the electorate win the day by voting for a change in the system, and if so, why?

Interesting that the question of AV is being decided by a first past the post system.

My vote is a definite NO.

Australia was held to ransome for several weeks by three MPs from very rural constituencies virtually in the bush who could not decide which party to make the government after their last election because of AV. Italy has had an average of one government a year because of its election system that causes endless coalitions. It is so bad that the public are prepared to put up with Berlusconi to get a stronger government. Israel has a coalition of four or more parties most of the time with extreme right wing religious parties holding the balance of power. Religion should have no place in government including Iran, Pakistan etc. Germany is one of the few countries that manages to make coalition governments work.

I believe that AV will produce more coalitions and that means more deals done behind closed doors and the public only getting a watered down version of what they voted for. It means minority parties have a disproportionate voice and the possibility of extreme parties being elected and possibly holding the balance of power.