Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

Didn't think you did for a moment , Frampton.
You're right leather is very different to the fur coats, but I suggest that mink farms originally used mink for other purposes and the fur is actually the by product. Also Rabbit and other animals. I also agree that endangered species should be protected but the protesters have drawn an arbitory line and said all animals on this side are noble, or cute and cuddly and their meat / fur should not be used. We couldn't care less about those on the other side, such as sheep and pigs.
A dose of realism.
I once had a long chat with a committed vegetarian, who claimed their diet was due to vegetarian ideals. I pointed out they happily drink milk and wear leather shoes. They claimed this was not at the expense of an animals life and so it was fine. It must be pointed out that milk comes only from cows that have given birth in the last 12 months or so. What did they think happened to the cute little male calf? Shoes and burgers was the answer, as a by product of them getting a glass of milk and a cheese sandwich.
Anyway, I am a bit biased on this because I like my beer brown, my cigs high tar and my steak still mooing, but I don't visit my local vegetarian cafe and dump loads of cabbage stalks outside. ;-)
Alan

Hi Alan,
Well I have to admit I didn't know mink were farmed originally for other purposes - what are they?
How can your vegetarian friend claim leather shoes were not at the expense of the animal's life? Surely they didn't think the leather came from animals that had died naturally? I am a vegetarian who uses milk, and am very well aware that the milk industry is tied up with the beef industry, but I have to draw the line somewhere, and I also have to eat - going the fruitarian route doesn't seem like much of a life to me! I am against the way animals are farmed intensively rather than the use of animals so maybe I should get my own cow, and eat the calves, to get my milk, it has crossed my mind once in a while.
Frampton
ps. I haven't bought any leather for over a quarter of a century, but judging by the difficulty there is in obtaining high quality non-leather shoes, I realise most veggies don't bother going that route.

Perhaps she belonged to the African tribe where anthropologists discovered the worlds first health & safety officer.
They followed herds around waiting for them to die naturally because the officer wouldn't allow them to use sharp objects for safety reasons and ate them raw due to a lack of fire safety training.
You wouldn't believe it from some of the crap I post on here, but I am a real live and let live type. I really don't care what people eat, drink or do in their spare time, as long as they don't try to make me feel bad about what I do in mine.
I also get a little angry at dual standards and badly thought out arguments.
For example. Last week I was outside a supermarket having a quiet ciggy, under the shelter by the door when a woman with kids berated me liberally about my smoking and the damage it was doing to her and her infernal kids. Indoors i could have meekly accepted this but this was in Gods own fresh air. She then proceeded to jump in her large diesel engined car and turned the key. Half of Leeds was engulfed in a plume of carcinogenic fumes that made Hiroshima look like a sparkler. Hmmmm. Your pollution is fine then, madam???
Enough of the soapbox. Just let me be an old fashioned bloke, cos with my lifestyle I wont be alive long enough to bother you much longer.
Alan

LOL at the health and safety officer story!

Two items of news this morning that have caught my eye.
Firstly the OED has been lambasted for the inclusion of a new word to describe a menial and lowpaid job, with no prospects, usually within the service sector. The thought police are outraged and worried over the offence it may cause to use the word "McJob".
Personally, I find it hilarious and accurate, though perhaps a better description of those following a worthless and offensive career would be "MP" or "Thought Police Inspector". I feel though, that it will be a short lived problem. McDonalds will be forced to close, soon enough. Following the anti-smoking policy success, similar battle lines are being drawn up on the war against obesity, the UK's No 1 health issue. Councils will use the same policy they are using on smokers to install bouncers outside fast food joints, armed with tape measures and scales, to say things like, "You can't come in here you fat salad dodger, until you lose 6 stone and stop being a burden on the NHS".

Secondly, this wonderful idea to increase fly tipping by the simple expedient of charging householders for the rubbish they throw away. This will mean industrial estates and country lanes everywhere will, at 3am, resemble the M25 in rush hour, as people disgorge bin liners full of crap from their cars.
Alternatively, the microchips will be smashed every single week by people saying, "Not me Guv. You really should do something about the vandalism around here." Or, "Not our rubbish, Guv. Some other pratt is filling our bin to keep their costs down".
apparantly, none of this has occured to our six figure salary MP's, which gives weight to the idea they should all be sacked and given McJobs, which we could alter the description of to "Essential service operatives of reduced ability and imagination". Actually we could probably use that description for their current work.
Alan

itsd great getting pissed

Here's a little pick-me-up for you, bos.

Talk about the PC brigade.

The new addition of a RSPB book has **** Robin, in place of Cock Robin.
The same book still mentions by name Tits, boobies and Shags. I wonder how long it will be before these words are substituted by asterisk.
A landlord of a pub wrote to the Daily Telegraph wondering what he should do about the pubs name in case it offended the PC Police, (It's called The Cock Inn).
When the RSPB was approached they said that the change was in case the word Cock upset little children.

You couldn't make it up, if you tried.

In the USA, the famous magazine, "Titbits" was renamed to "Tidbits" in case it made any poor Yanks come over all unneccessary.

Sorry Alan, I will have to report you to the PC Police; you used the words Yanks...........now how do you think a child/teenager would interpret that?

Late on Friday, in Delft, I picked up a Dutch parking ticket.
I was on my way to the ferry so I had no chance to do anything about it.
Question is whether any of you know if they will chase me back to the UK for it?
Any ideas, anyone?
Alan

Alan, I have experience. In my first few months in Germany (so we're talking summer 2001), I was still driving my British registered car (my faithful and much-missed Peugeot 405 diesel estate).

Parked it the wrong side of some white line or other, but in what appeared to be a perfectly non-obstructive location, and came back to find I'd got a ticket. Which made me realise I was actually pretty lucky not to have had the car towed away and impounded, as the nearby signs implied could happen to parking offenders.

Anyway, I didn't pay the fine and never heard anything from the authorities. The view I took was that the parking warden had had his fun by issuing me with a rightly deserved ticket, and I'd had mine by being a foreigner and knowing I wouldn't get chased up for it (I mean, think of the admin involved!).

I salved my guilty conscience by telling myself I would never park illegally in Frankfurt again, ever, and that I had in any case not been fully cognisant of the parking regs at the time the offence was committed (which is no excuse in law, but made me feel better!).

Today I'm not so rebellious and probably would have paid, but at the time was feeling naughty and also had an American colleague who boasted that when he worked at the CBoT, he used to park illegally right outside and get a parking ticket every day, none of which he paid for, so clearly I wasn't going to be outdone.

In a nutshell, if you're feeling like an honest and worthy European citizen, pay up, but if you don't I'd be surprised if you heard anything more, and in any case the first message directed at you would surely be a reminder.

Alan, I found this for you about your parking fine. It says if the offence is committed in France you have a higher likelihood of beeing pursued.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/global/2006/12/29/ndriving29.xml

Well, well. how times change . . .

Cheers guys and gals.
I am in financial services so I think that answers the question about honesty.
I will drink a drink to Dutch Buearocracy and forget I ever went to Delft (though it is a most Beautiful town).
Alan

LOL I trust you had a good time (and that you don't have any pressing reasons to visit Holland again, as you are now undoubtedly on a "wanted" list somewhere) :o)

Should I turn out to be wrong and you get a summons, please let us know (and we'll all wet ourselves laughing!)

ST

Had a fab time, ST.
Been taking the ankle biters to the same place in Holland for 10 years and they love it.
Sadly they are too old now to enjoy it to the full, so we may never go again and have to put up with more mundane destinations like the Maldives and Mauritius.
For anyone with kids under about 12, I can really recommend the place though, if you don't mind staying in a mobile home or tent.
Alan

Alan,

I think we have an extradition treaty with Holland, so if I were you I would go into hiding.

Greekman, LOL!

Alan, That sounds great. Tents are fine - may go myself sometime (although I will clearly have to borrow somebody's children).

So sorry you are now reduced to holidaying in the Maldives. If it ever gets too much you can always send me your tickets :o)

I guess your kids are now heading for holidaying in Ibiza and/or Agia Napa under their own steam?

Al ,,i owe the Germans a fine from 1994 for a motoring offence + i also owe the French money from 2003 for speeding and i never turned up for a court appearance,,i suppose that puts me in the same wanted bracket as Osama Bin Laden ,i'm a bad MF .