Thought Id start this one going because its rather dead on this board at the moment and I suppose all my usual muckers are either at the Stella tennis event watching Dim Tim (lose again) or at Henly Regatta eating cucumber sandwiches (they wish,...NOT).

Anyway please feel free to just talk to yourself blast away and let it go on any company or subject you wish. Just wish Id thought of this one before.

cheers GF.

oblo,
The next generation comes through. I watch my kids and their mates with American expressionisms and values. I see the way our lives are more and more dictated by the idealistic ideals of the liberals - surely reminiscent of the US liberal movement with its "new speak". No-one is fat anymore, they are obese lest we offend them etc. etc.
My children and their friends act more like extras from a Jerry Springer show everyday. They have no need to think any more - just to emote.
Watch any "young persons" show and see how people react now and tell me, hand on heart, that it is not following US trend.
Think back to how we have echoed US trends. The 80's and Greed is Good.
I don't want to appear anti-American. I just want it to stay in America.
You travel. Think of anywhere you have been that has been made better by American business. Where a country starts to adopt the consumerism and political values of the US, it seems (IMO) to spoil the natural beauty of the place and people.
McDonalds and Disney are fine, but where they appear, the culture disappears. Just my opinion, but I really do see a day when you will struggle to find a bacon butty, but will have no problem with a McMuffin. And thats it in a nutshell. We will find all things American, and nothing uniquely British. I don't want to see that.
Just my opinion.
Alan

Alan, 'I don't want to appear anti-American. I just want it to stay in America.
You travel. Think of anywhere you have been that has been made better by American business. Where a country starts to adopt the consumerism and political values of the US, it seems (IMO) to spoil the natural beauty of the place and people.
McDonalds and Disney are fine, but where they appear, the culture disappears. Just my opinion, but I really do see a day when you will struggle to find a bacon butty, but will have no problem with a McMuffin. And thats it in a nutshell. We will find all things American, and nothing uniquely British. I don't want to see that.
Just my opinion.'

I agree 110% with everything you've said there, but not with what preceded it.

The young do copy American ways - they have done since the 50's to some extent because they are by nature impressionable -but what happens is that as they grow older and mature (as we have!) they in the main come to their senses and fall back into 'British ways'.

I believe this is because the 'American Dream' and all it entails is primarily rather childish and appeals to the immature. No offence intended to Americans, but they tend to remain childish into adulthood and until the day they die! Much of the rest of the world tend to grow up.

Take your 80's 'greed is good' example - still stands in the US, but all but dead in the UK.

In addition, we are seeing a rejection of US culture the world over. I think that'll grow, even in Yorkshire!

The one thing Blair did for us was to illustrate how foolish it is to follow the US blindly as he did over foreign policy - I think that was a lesson many took on board.

Hi Oblo,

You mention rightly re our tradition of tolerance and fair play.
But I feel one of our biggest problems is, we are sometimes too tolerant of others when we should be saying enough is enough, and as for fair play, I'm all for it as long as the other person is.
I often feel we are the Aunt Patsies of the world, still playing rich uncle to anyone/country who recognizes us as a soft touch.

It gets better.
Took little eddy to the "Young Masters Golf" presentation evening tonight and he passed his cadetship with a distinction and won an award for most improved cadet.
Well happy.

Bagsee first to promote the merchandise Alan!

You got it, Kim (though the sponsors of YMG - Ping -may be a litle upset).

Greek,
Back several days to one of my favourite authors, Bill Bryson.
He relates the story of arriving in Europe for the first time as a backpacker. The first thing he did, cos he was hungry, was but a bar of chocolate. He claims it to be one of the great experiences of his life. He had no idea anything could taste that good.
It wasn't that he had never had chocolate, but being American, he had only ever eaten Hersheys. Even now, almost the only chocolate available in America is apparantly Hersheys. It certainly was when I was in Florida a couple of years ago.
Outraged that his childhood had been spent eating this inferior stuff he researched why. It transpires it is part of the American psyche that products and services need to be uniform. It is expected and welcomes and like a Brit in Benidorm seeking out fish and chips, an American will demand exactly what they are used to.
When this occurs, there is no product competition based on differences or quality. it is simply convenience and price. Hersheys won that battle and the result was uniform mediocrity.
He says he sees it now in the UK. The great breadth of visitor accomodation dying at the hands of Travelodge, and the street corner cafes becoming McD's or clones thereof. One day, if you want a coffee, it will be Starbucks or nothing.
Starbucks and Travelodge are fine institutions, and their wares have a role in society. Starbucks coffee can be wonderful, but will we be better off for the lack of choice and the competition for business or will we end up with Starbucks prices and the coffee equivilent of Hersheys?
He's right to fear this you know. Remember the times when you got a train or bus to a different town to shop, because the high street had very different shops, goods, experiences? Think of now. I could probably list the names of every shop on your towns high street, be it Aylesbury or Aberdeen, Wakefield or Walsall. Tell me that such a position enriches our lives.
I'm probably in a minority of one, and something of a dinosaur but I like my beer brown, my cigs high tar and above all, a choice in what I eat, do, see, stay in and buy, and I like a real choice. Not Hersheys milk or Hersheys plain.

With respect, cobblers Alan!

In my lifetime (I'm in my second half century) there has never been such a choice of food, beer, coffee, chocolate and just about anything else you care to mention!

I can remember the days when pubs sold Watneys Red Barrel and Whitbread Tankard - yuk! We now have locally brewed beers and far more choice than there was 30-40 years ago.

I can also remember when the only food pubs sold were ploughmans or pickled eggs (or maybe an arrowroot biscuit - remember them?)

If what you say about chocolate and the US is true (which I doubt - Mars is an American company), you have given an example of how we differ from them, not how we're becoming like them.

If we are under any threat of losing consumer choice it is through the barmy bandwagon of enironmental friendliness most of the population seems to be jumping on. The latest manifestation of that is not eating food produced more than 10 or 20 or 50 miles from where you live.

As for Bill Bryson, I read all of his books up to Made in America. Have you read that one? According to Bill the good old US invented just about everything good in the world. The rest of the world has contributed nothing.

Saturday morning rant over - I'm off to slay a dragon or two now - overun with the blighters!

We'll disagree then, Oblo. ;-)
I also remember (though not as old as you) going shopping at department stores that were unique to their home town, such as Binns in Sunderland or Lewis in Leeds. Now I can go to any town and find exactly the same stores selling exactly the same goods in exactly the same layout.
When I want a butty and a pot of tea, I struggle to find anything other than the national franchise chains and the ned of the day finds me wanting to down a beer and ending up in a pub that is, once again, the same as every other one, owned by the same chain.
As for pub grub, you are partly right, but it is very often in the same Brewers Fayres etc. Same menu, prices and ambience. Where it is not one of these franchised establishments, it is in a wannabe pub. Copying the same succesful model. My proof? Ignore the classier places and tell me the last time you had a pub meal where the mashed potato was not reconstituted SMASH and the Yorkies were not of the Aunt Bessie pre frozen variety.
Thats kind of the point. The places that offer the difference are now marginalised. it may be different for all I know in other areas, but most town centres are the same places with the same choices and it is of the style over content variety.
Anyway. My rant over. I'll never get it how I want it, and rightly so, because I am a minority.
Alan

I remember the department stores, Alan. We still have them although mostly they've been taken over by larger companies such as John Lewis, Debenhams, House of Fraser, etc. And in my opinion they're better for it! They're all fine stores.

Our pubs in the south are not all chains and I've not noticed any difference when I've been oop north.

Food in pubs can be both good and bad. People are on the whole very discerning and the bad ones dont last - not down here, anyway. It has always been thus. Just patronise the good ones.

There are some great pubs in the dales.

Its very tempting to look into the past through rose tinted specs, but on the whole I think we're far better off consumerwise, pubwise and restaurantwise then we were 30 or 40 years ago. Things were pretty tough back then - money not nearly so readily available to most of the population and very little choice in the shops. Restaurants were few and far between outside the major cities. In the town where I grew up the choice was a Wimpy or one chinese restaurant up til the early 70's.

I love just about everything I have eaten or drank. From some sort of grub in Jamaica to a pickled lizard drink in Portugal.
I love the diversity of other countries including their food/drink but that does not mean I want our country to be a total cultural mix.
The first thing I tend to do on return home is have a good old English real ale pint, steak and chips with mushy peas.
The reason I love foreign travel is because of our differences, but that does not mean I welcome all creeds with open arms.
I want our country to stay mainly English, as much as I would expect other countries to consist mainly of their people and cultures.

Yup. D'accord.
Had a wonderful time last year in Cozumel, a small island off Mexico.
What I was really looking forward to was the wonderful Mexican cooking. I could easily kill for the spicy wraps etc. full of seasoned beef and chicken and jalapenos.
At the hotel (and all the others on the island) the food was pretty tasteless and tended to be of the mild chilli variety, or perhaps worse, pizza and fries.
We were all inclusive and mentioned this to the chef. he responded that they never have jalapenos on the menu, or any other traditionally mexican food. He was under instruction to keep food bland and plentiful, as client feedback suggested this was preferable.
I didn't believe this so I asked the management. A really nice Spanish manager explained that this really was true. Over 80% of guests were American, and they complained that the food was too spicy. When I pulled something of a face at this, he smiled and reminded me that Mexico was to the USA as Spain is to England and if I went to Benidorm it would be so much easier to get Fish and Chips and a pint of Tetleys than it would be to get a good paella and glass of spanish wine.
Its possibly true, and very sad, that worldwide, cultures are either being dominated by the tourist trade or homogonised into a "one size fits all" culture.
Perhaps thats why I loved Cuba so very much. It had almost nothing by way of outside influence. Everything was either grown or produced there and traditional to Cuba, or you couldn't get it. The only influence from anywhere else was russian, and as I have never ventured to russia, I could not comment.

Seems like the race for stupidity title has hotted up this week.
The entrants so far today are Cambridgeshire Police and Rachael Durnigan (21) of the British Youth Council.
cambridgeshire police have devoted much money to handing posters to local shops asking them not to sell eggs and flour to kids in the run up to trick or treat and mischeivious night. This is to the same shops that the police cannot get to stop selling cider to kids, so thats going to work.
There is, in some areas a problem with these nights getting somewhat sinister, rather than fun, but surely the simple answer is a police presence in the areas affected. They have gone on to realise that this is not daft enough, and so have said that children in possession of such, may be arrested. Going equipped to make a sponge cake I presume. I would love to see that one stick.
Face it guys. The only way is more coppers on street corners and the ability to confiscate. Mugging old ladies and nicking cars only gets a 10 minute bollocking from a senior plod, so what will possession of self raising get? Big deterrant.
Now rachael was annoyed at all this. Her constituents are being "demonised". How could she react.
With an intelligence level somewhere between a cuttlefish and a line dancer, she attacked the police for.......................discrimination! She reasoned that no-one would ever dare to question an accusation of such a heinious crime. Discriminating against kids. How low can our boys in blue go?
So while the coppers claim a lack of manpower to keep our homes safe, Rachael insists that they take an even handed approach. She seems to be suggesting that the fear caused at this time of year is not only kids, but those Saga louts blowing their pension on surplus food stuffs to throw at your windows and then run like hell to the safety of the nearest bingo hall.
Face it Rachael. Even you cannot get that one to make sense.
It is kids, that in some areas, make this next week a living hell. Its not adults. they do it the rest of the year. And coppers. Get a grip. Asking the local shopkeeper to not sell things never worked before. The fear of running round a corner and bumping into the local bobby always did. It would again if you rearranged the shifts.
After all, the amount of traffic coppers has reduced speeding and drink driving. You never asked pubs to stop serving beer or car manufacturers to limit their motors to 30MPH.

I'd have thought you'd be in favour of this one, Alan. Trick or treat - another ghastly US import corrupting the minds of the young!

Ban it, I say, and return to the more traditional British pastimes of Maypole Dancing and village stocks!

Don't get me wrong, Oblo.
I was in two minds whether to rant about trick or treat, that most Charlie Brown of traditions or have a go at Rachael.
rachael won because I could not believe the discrimination card came out so readily.
Kinda shows that any argument is swallowed whole providing one can slip the words Race, prejudice or discrimination into the quote.
Alan

Laugh??? I nearly cried.

A man has been shot by his dog while on a hunting trip in the United States.
James Harris, 37, was shot in the leg after one of his hunting dogs stepped on his gun.

Wonderful. he left his safety catch off and the gun with his dog!!! LOADED!!!
It gets better;

Alan Foster, a spokesman for the Iowa Department of Natural Resources, said it was not uncommon for hunters to be shot by their dogs.

I propose we offer the dogs target practise. It may do nothing or the poor deceased hunter, but imagine the vast improvement in the International gene pool.

Reading all your rants about the USA ,and i'm sitting here in south west Florida having a wonderful time with my US friends ,i spend a lot of time here and it's just not as bad as you say Al..

Probably not old bean, just not my cup of tea.
We probably have a lot to thank them for (?) but in with the good, comes the abysmally bad. When I think of the things that make my beloved Britain appear to be morally and intellectually bankrupt, I always seem to see things we have imported from America. Gang gun crime, the PR brigade, the litageous society, the crappy reality TV, baseball caps, trick or treat, cardboard food, work practices (I hate it when I hear reference to "work partners" or "colleagues") etc. etc.
Perhaps its a bit lazy of me to lay it at the US door (or front porch), but these things do seem to gather momentum there and then arrive on our shores.
I am often struck that in the more laid back, easy living countries, Americanisms don't seem (to me at least) quite so prevelant as they are here.
I'll leave off them and let them carry on being murdered by their pets for a while. ;-)
Alan

WILL SOMEBODY GET THESE PEOPLE A REAL JOB!!!!!!!!!

Christmas should be downgraded unless other religious festivals are marked on an even footing, a Government think-tank has said.

(Advertisement)
The Institute of Public Policy Research has suggested various ideas to make the UK more multicultural.

It also wants "national culture" barriers to be torn down to help immigrants settle into the UK.

In a report due to be published in coming weeks, the organisation said: "If we are going to continue to mark Christmas - and it would be very hard to expunge it from our national life even if we wanted to - then public organisations should mark other major religious festivals too.

"Even-handedness dictates that we provide public recognition to minority cultures and traditions."

It emerged in 2006 that three out of four employers were not putting up Christmas decorations in the workplace for fear of offending staff of other cultures.

I.m.o people that dont go to work including men and women that stay at home to look after the kids (havent they heard of nannies) excluding those that have retired, should be kept of our roads it should be illegal for them to own cars. There is no rush hour anymore its all day, on your day of or when you have finished work you can not go any where or get home.
If people do not work then walk lazy s*ds.


Ban Christmas and religions we should all have the whole of December off.

A penguin walks into a bar and asks the barman "have you seen my brother?"
"I dont know" says the barman "what does he look like?"