Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

as i said, the historical part is fine .... it's the "groan, groan - not more of this biased polemic stuff!" that forms the editorial links that i find so predictable and boring

Cynic,

Compared with some views on this thread, I think the views propagated by the majority of posters quite moderate.

But perhaps I am biased.

it would just have been so nice to see an attachment that was apolitical and balanced ..... i find these heavily biased comments and propaganda from either side a complete turn-off - so i do ..... when i get a moment, i think i shall enjoy the article by sebag montefiore in ST magazine, for i know he is highly intelligent and will almost certainly have written something sensible and interesting,

It is not possible to get an apolitical view on the ME. The very nature of the ME is that it is a political problem It is unlikely that anyone could discuss the situation without an opinion regarding the rights and wrongs of what happened. I think you only have to look at the remarks made by the then leaders of the embyonic Israel to see that their intentions are still the aims of Israel. Israel intends to drive out all the Palestinians from their land. This is clear from the rate at which settlemsnts are taking place in the West Bank. "The Israeli government of Benjamin Netanyahu has allocated 563 million dollars budget for the settlement activity in the next two years, a Hebrew paper reported.

Ha'aretz said on Friday that the budget was mainly earmarked for extending services to Israeli settlements, rehabilitating their infrastructure, and providing security for the settlers in addition to building new suburbs and roads leading to them.

The Israeli settlement activity in the West Bank and occupied Jerusalem had witnessed an upsurge lately in a bid to impose a de facto situation on the ground in any future settlement in the region."

...................................

In a letter Chaim Weizmann sent to the Palestine-British high Commissioner, while the Peel Commission was convening in 1937, he stated:

"We shall spread in the whole country in the course of time ..... this is only an arrangement for the next 25 to 30 years."

Ben-Gurion emphasized that the acceptance of the Peel Commission would not imply static borders for the future "Jewish state". In a letter Ben-Gurion sent to his son in 1937, he wrote:

"No Zionist can forgo the smallest portion of the Land Of Israel. [A] Jewish state in part [of Palestine] is not an end, but a beginning ..... Our possession is important not only for itself ... through this we increase our power, and every increase in power facilitates getting hold of the country in its entirety. Establishing a [small] state .... will serve as a very potent lever in our historical effort to redeem the whole country." (Righteous Victims, p. 138)

In 1938, Ben-Gurion made it clear of his support for the "Jewish state" on part of Palestine was only as a stepping ground for a complete conquest. He wrote:

"[I am] satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state--we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 107 & One Palestine Complete, p. 403)

One day after the UN vote to partition Palestine, Menachem Begin, the commander of the Irgun gang and Israel's future Prime Minister between 1977-1983, proclaimed:

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever." (Iron Wall p. 25)

Ben-Gurion was happy and sad when the U.N. voted to partition Palestine into two states, Palestinian and Jewish. He was happy because "finally" Jews could have a "country" of their own. On the other hand, he was sad because they have "lost" almost half of Palestine, and because they would have to contend with a sizable Palestinian minority, well over 45% of the total population. In the following few quotes, you will see how he also stated that a "Jewish state" cannot survive being 60% Jewish; implying that something aught to be done to remedy the so called "Arab demographic problem". He stated on November 30, 1947:


"In my heart, there was joy mixed with sadness: joy that the nations at last acknowledged that we are a nation with a state, and sadness that we lost half of the country, Judea and Samaria, and , in addition, that we [would] have [in our state] 400,000 [Palestinian] Arabs." (Righteous Victims, p. 190)

Ben-Gurion commented on the proposed Peel Commission Partition plan as follows in 1937:

"We must EXPEL ARABS and take their places .... and, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places-then we have force at our disposal." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 66). Note the premeditated plan to ethnically cleanse the Negev and Transjordan which were not allocated to the Jewish State by the Peel Commission, click here to view a map illustrating the areas allocated to the "Jewish State" by the Peel Commission in 1937.

For moment, let assume that the above are pure Arab propaganda, and lets contemplate what Ben-Gurion told Nahunm Goldman (a prominent Zionists leader before he died):

"I don't understand your optimism.," Ben-Gurion declared. "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipes us out".

Wikileaks revealed that Israel told the US embassy in Tel Aviv in cables that it intended to keep the economy in the besieged Gaza Strip on the brink of collapse through tightening the blockade on its people.

Some of the cables illustrated that Israel kept the US embassy briefed on its blockade of Gaza people.

As part of their overall embargo plan against Gaza, Israeli officials confirmed in one of the cables to the US embassy on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gaza economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge.

Israel wanted the economy in Gaza functioning at the lowest level possible, but with avoiding a humanitarian crisis, Israeli officials claimed in a cable sent on November 3, 2008.

The economic life in Gaza is facing many hardships and its unemployment rate is considered the highest percentage in the world, where it rose in 2010 to 35 percent.

Israel still does not permit Gaza to export anything so that they cannot earn any foreign currency.

I wonder why Wikileaks seems to have dropped off the media radar?

Perhaps, it is too embarrassing for many.

One can see the duplicity of the American administrations in relationship with Israel's present administration.

It is interesting to see that a guy called Muhammed Dahlan, who is a sort of muscle guy for Fatah and the PA is being investigated for a possible coup against Abbas. They have closed down his office and taken away PCs etc.

Before the Oslo accord he was living in virtual poverty. Since Oslo and the pumping of millions into the West Bank, he is rich. he owns several houses and a luxury hotel in another country. There are also rumours of Abbas being on the take. Abbas's tenure of occice finished a year ago and he rules by edict now. He cancelled the elections due last June. This makes the peace process pointless as Abbas and the PA have no legitimacy now.

Why are Israeli forces shooting people in their beds?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12133918

7 January 2011 Last updated at 10:19

West Bank civilian dies in Israeli army raid in Hebron

Israeli troops have shot dead a 67-year-old Palestinian man by mistake in an operation to arrest members of the Islamist militant organisation, Hamas.

The pre-dawn raid happened in Hebron, in the West Bank, a day after six supporters of Hamas had been released from jail by the Palestinian Authority.

The man who died was a neighbour of one of the Hamas men.

Hamas has said it holds the Palestinian Authority and Israel responsible.

Reports from the scene of the shooting said it took place in a bedroom on the building's first floor.

The Reuters news agency has reported that the man, Amr Qawasme, was shot and killed in his bed when soldiers broke into his home before dawn.

His wife, Sobheye, said she heard several shots fired and later saw her husband lying in a pool of blood.

"I was praying when they entered. I do not know how they opened the door. They put their hand to my mouth and a rifle to my head," she told Reuters.

"I was shocked. They did not allow me to talk. I asked them, "What did you do?" They asked me to shut up."

Fred at last we agree on something re post 4082

Yes wikileaks is very embarrasing for some people isnt it,I couldnt agree more,

IF one popped up what suited your agenda no doubt you would seize the opportunity to copy and paste it, and if it didnt suit your agenda you would simply not even acknowledge it exisited,

Same old same old Fred,

So do you believe these wiki leakes disclosures then, or do you just choose to aknowledge the ones that go with your agenda?

Ruth - perhaps it would be interesting to enlighten people here re that biblical personage .... any link as to why that should be your handle?

I am happy with all the Wikileaks. It is better to have more transparancy.

Dear Children

Santa doesn't exist.

Love Julian Assange

A Wikileaks document states that Israel's national security council has committed to an initiative to provide the Gaza Strip with enough money to buy only basic materials.

The document discusses downsizing the amount of monies transferred to the Strip monthly, allowing only enough to prevent a collapse in the banking sector.

"A Wikileaks document states that Israel's national security council has committed to an initiative to provide the Gaza Strip with enough money to buy only basic materials.

The document discusses downsizing the amount of monies transferred to the Strip monthly, allowing only enough to prevent a collapse in the banking sector."


Over generous if you ask me, considering Hamas, like you, parrot, want to see Israel destroyed. Why don't the Muslim countries provide everything the Gazans need?
In times of war, you blockade your enemy. If Hamas want peace they will find Israel more than willing.
Just like Israel made peace with Egypt and Jordan when they decided peace was better than unending war. It's much kinder of the Israelis to blockade and occasionally raid then what we did to Germany, RELENTLESSLY carpet bombing cities with HE and incendaries burning the population alive. Operation Cast Lead killed fewer civilians than any of our raids did in one night over German cities.
Parrot and freddie few brains, go on then, off you go to Gaza; jihad calls you. Your hate talk is cheap.

The Muslim countries do try and provide things that Gaza wants, but Israel limits what Gaza can bring in. Israel also stops Gaza exporting anything at all so they have no income. I see no reasonable comparison to Germany. Germany was heavily armed and was taking land all over Europe. The opposite is true with Israel/Palestine. Israel is heavily armed and taking Palestinian land. They are also oppressing Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank in a way similar to Germany during the occupation of France, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Poland, Czechoslovakia............

I suspect that you know little of what Hamas wants. Hamas is just a movement of resistance against occupation. Remember the French Resistance that used to kill Germans, sabotage German war efforts etc?

The Muslim countries do try and provide things that Gaza wants .... sorry but that's total rubbish!

Not entirely. It provides them with as many rockets, mortars and shells as they can fire.

It's not quite so forthcoming with food, medicine, building supplies etc.

Cynic,
Sorry was just having a pop at Fred re a recent wikileaks cable on a different topic, the info within that leak certainly went against his agenda and past accusations on how another foreign police force was incompetent and corrupt etc,(you know the usual Fred nonsense/delusion ) when wikileaks cable actually confirms that wasnt the case at all.

In the post i referred to he said wikileaks was embarrasing for some people, and I was agreeing , it certainly was embarrasing for HIM

Muslim countries are proving food medicine etc every few days. There are constant convoys arriving at the checkpoints of Gaza. They have trouble with delivering building supplies as Israel does not permit Gaza to have these.

Unfortunately they also do not permit rockets, mortars, shells etc, which might help address the imbalance between Gaza and its oppressors. They have to resort to smuggling. Israel, of course, does not have this problem as the US is more than happy to supply them with the latest weapons.

One such use of these weapons was the shooting of the 65 year old Palestinian man in bed the other day - "IOF troops quietly entered his flat and went straight to his bedroom and riddled his head and upper body with 13 bullets leaving his brain splattered on the floor mistaking him for someone else".

Ruth - no need to apologise to me at all ... i was just slightly curious whether or not your handle reflected said lady of biblical mention.

Haystack - Muslim countries are proving food medicine etc every few days. There are constant convoys arriving at the checkpoints of Gaza ..... exactly how many and from which countries? .... not remotely interested in your usual histrionics about weapons etc