Will this increase or decrease the likelihood of terrorist actions in America, Europe and the rest of the world?

If you were a member of a family murdered in this conflict, would you be seeking revenge?

Should Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert, be tried for war crimes if or when this conflict comes to an end?

What will the price of oil be in 4 weeks time?

Should that be the ranting one's ....... In the land of , being the other.

I don't mind my posts being chactarised as rnats, especially as they don't qualify as such.

Today

A group of Israeli settlers in the northern West Bank district of Toubas confiscated vast areas of Palestinian-owned land around the Rotim settlement.

Palestinian eyewitnesses said on Thursday that dozens of settlers raided on Wednesday night lands adjacent to the Rotim and confiscated about 30 dunums (1 dunum= 100sq meters), one of the settlers even started ploughing the land.

Aref Daragmeh, local head of Bedouin council said that the confiscated land belonged to four Palestinian citizens, two of them from the same family.

He called on human rights organisations to help Palestinians protect their land.

Baldick,

What is offending you about this thread.

Why are you so touchy.

To me, the thread has been and is informative about the M/E and those who post on it!

I don't buy newspapers, or books, which I think are likely to contain rubbish and similarly I pick and chose which TV programmes I watch, but I certainly don't want to suppress them or censor them.

Allow adults to make their own choices.

I just wonder, what brings you back to this thread and repeatedly advocate its demise,

Are you sure of your motivation?

Fred - it would have made a much more interesting thread had it not been full of verbose and boringly repetitive c+p .... whether or not these items are factual - always a debatable issue, as it depends on who wrote them - is pretty much irrelevant ..... one would have hoped that the inhabitants of this BB had brains of their own with which to make concise, trenchant or even entertaining comment

The arguments of necessity cannot be brief or concise and are hardly likely to be entertaining.

Cynic,

I am trying to reduce the number of expletives I use.

That tends to increase the lengths of replies.

8-)

I thought it would be a good idea to close this thread as the debate is getting nowhere. The post's are getting like Fred's ,with reply's being twisted , silly , off topic and question's being answered with another question.

"question's being answered with another question. "


Let me introduce you to real life.

Anyway, I wish all (including the Squelched" a happy, or at least a contented New year.

Blwyddyn newydd dda i chi

Q: Why do jews always answer a question with another question?
A: I should know?

Doublespeak (sometimes called doubletalk) is language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. Doublespeak may take the form of euphemisms (e.g., "downsizing" for layoffs), making the truth less unpleasant, without denying its nature. It may also be deployed as intentional ambiguity, or reversal of meaning (for example, naming a state of war "peace"). In such cases, doublespeak disguises the nature of the truth, producing a communication bypass.


Fred , Next year why don't you try to get out more, there's more to life then posting on here.

Ald,

Your obvious irritation, pleases me to much.

Palestinian History, A Chronology

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story564.html#B.C.

Fahel,

Thank you for posting.

V. Interesting.

you're right that the history part is very interesting, but to my mind, the whole thing is devalued by its blatant partisan subtext ...... i'm afraid that both sides are afflicted with hardcore zealots who make the difficult course to a peaceful solution 50x harder .... of course it was little different in ireland too

That historical account is pretty good. It is almost all a statement of facts and very little opinion. I have read quite a few similar accounts that tend to distort the history.

This is well worth reading as well.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story448.html

as i said, the historical part is fine .... it's the "groan, groan - not more of this biased polemic stuff!" that forms the editorial links that i find so predictable and boring

Cynic,

Compared with some views on this thread, I think the views propagated by the majority of posters quite moderate.

But perhaps I am biased.

it would just have been so nice to see an attachment that was apolitical and balanced ..... i find these heavily biased comments and propaganda from either side a complete turn-off - so i do ..... when i get a moment, i think i shall enjoy the article by sebag montefiore in ST magazine, for i know he is highly intelligent and will almost certainly have written something sensible and interesting,

It is not possible to get an apolitical view on the ME. The very nature of the ME is that it is a political problem It is unlikely that anyone could discuss the situation without an opinion regarding the rights and wrongs of what happened. I think you only have to look at the remarks made by the then leaders of the embyonic Israel to see that their intentions are still the aims of Israel. Israel intends to drive out all the Palestinians from their land. This is clear from the rate at which settlemsnts are taking place in the West Bank. "The Israeli government of Benjamin Netanyahu has allocated 563 million dollars budget for the settlement activity in the next two years, a Hebrew paper reported.

Ha'aretz said on Friday that the budget was mainly earmarked for extending services to Israeli settlements, rehabilitating their infrastructure, and providing security for the settlers in addition to building new suburbs and roads leading to them.

The Israeli settlement activity in the West Bank and occupied Jerusalem had witnessed an upsurge lately in a bid to impose a de facto situation on the ground in any future settlement in the region."

...................................

In a letter Chaim Weizmann sent to the Palestine-British high Commissioner, while the Peel Commission was convening in 1937, he stated:

"We shall spread in the whole country in the course of time ..... this is only an arrangement for the next 25 to 30 years."

Ben-Gurion emphasized that the acceptance of the Peel Commission would not imply static borders for the future "Jewish state". In a letter Ben-Gurion sent to his son in 1937, he wrote:

"No Zionist can forgo the smallest portion of the Land Of Israel. [A] Jewish state in part [of Palestine] is not an end, but a beginning ..... Our possession is important not only for itself ... through this we increase our power, and every increase in power facilitates getting hold of the country in its entirety. Establishing a [small] state .... will serve as a very potent lever in our historical effort to redeem the whole country." (Righteous Victims, p. 138)

In 1938, Ben-Gurion made it clear of his support for the "Jewish state" on part of Palestine was only as a stepping ground for a complete conquest. He wrote:

"[I am] satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state--we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 107 & One Palestine Complete, p. 403)

One day after the UN vote to partition Palestine, Menachem Begin, the commander of the Irgun gang and Israel's future Prime Minister between 1977-1983, proclaimed:

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever." (Iron Wall p. 25)

Ben-Gurion was happy and sad when the U.N. voted to partition Palestine into two states, Palestinian and Jewish. He was happy because "finally" Jews could have a "country" of their own. On the other hand, he was sad because they have "lost" almost half of Palestine, and because they would have to contend with a sizable Palestinian minority, well over 45% of the total population. In the following few quotes, you will see how he also stated that a "Jewish state" cannot survive being 60% Jewish; implying that something aught to be done to remedy the so called "Arab demographic problem". He stated on November 30, 1947:


"In my heart, there was joy mixed with sadness: joy that the nations at last acknowledged that we are a nation with a state, and sadness that we lost half of the country, Judea and Samaria, and , in addition, that we [would] have [in our state] 400,000 [Palestinian] Arabs." (Righteous Victims, p. 190)

Ben-Gurion commented on the proposed Peel Commission Partition plan as follows in 1937:

"We must EXPEL ARABS and take their places .... and, if we have to use force-not to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev and Transjordan, but to guarantee our own right to settle in those places-then we have force at our disposal." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 66). Note the premeditated plan to ethnically cleanse the Negev and Transjordan which were not allocated to the Jewish State by the Peel Commission, click here to view a map illustrating the areas allocated to the "Jewish State" by the Peel Commission in 1937.

For moment, let assume that the above are pure Arab propaganda, and lets contemplate what Ben-Gurion told Nahunm Goldman (a prominent Zionists leader before he died):

"I don't understand your optimism.," Ben-Gurion declared. "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipes us out".